I did not launch any argument agains womens ordination nor for it, but what I did say is that people need to consider where that line of argument leads and be willing to decide based on all the implications. Ive worshiped in quite a variety of churches, and over the years have known a lot of church members I believed were gay. Last night I watched Pastor Pete Briscoe give his rationale for leading his church to welcome female elders to their leadership structure (see above). Here is one incident as reported by the Christian Post. We are actually seeing that right now with the new focus on testosterone. Wow. Paul is concerned about untaught women taking over. Dee, I tell people the same thing, whether its a church setting or other group. As far as I know, those sessions are open to all church members (male and female). Yuck. Bless their hearts, I admire, I guess, the comps standing up for what they think is right, but why cant they see how illogical their reading of scripture is given all that women have accomplished today. Also women are more easily deceived so you should trust and do anything a man at church tells you to do. . The elders decided to back the class and asked the couple not to interfere since I was doing this withtheirpermission. Simply disgusting. Beautiful The grace of God in action. . . Their hermeneutic must prevail and it must translate into actual practice. So yes, you will see the the marketing behind the issue change. Now if you can find me some passages of scripture that actually teach men to lead rather than the making up of doctrines around the verses that say women submit, then I will revisit my 20 years of study on the equality of men and women in the pulpit and home. If you are unfamiliar with this, here it is in a nutshell. Wow! Maybe is good; must is bad. For her, that was a defining moment because the point leader of this church expressed grace to her in a way that meant the world to her, Briscoe said. Tim Harkins. I hold the church would have failed miserably without women, it actually would not exist. Briscoe and the elders rely heavily upon William Webbs trajectory hermeneutic. "One of the things I learned a number of years ago is that grace is doing the most loving thing," he said. It is love for the sheep. The sin, he told his congregation, does not diminish anything the person has done in ministry. What were the situations that were understood, the things in the local culture that the people who received Pauls letter all knew about and did not need to be spelled out? The service was wonderful and I needed the encouragement. . The feel of it is very different from evangelical protestantism even when there are doctrinal similarities on paper about some things. The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. Still, whether they realize this or not, the theological rationale for their decision is at odds with a commitment to the Bibles authority. @ okrapod: christine delvaux cause of death I found this quite accidentally and was struck by two things: the replacement of bible content with utilitarianism and your own lack of love for people with whom you disagree by your snarky remarks and condescension (e.g. Calvary Chapels party line insofar as not trusting ones own internals, is the same as the Neo-Cals. This became a huge cause for concern for some men in the SBC and we see a trajectory of them embracing such academic teaching as George Knight and his submussive Christian roles for women. I have seen Christians growing in the Lord and then others who have gone off into looney tune new age, crystals, Barley green, and selling soap with a picture of a motor home on your fridge, and pseudo spiritual excesses. those terms . He does not appear to have a testosterone problem. I though you might like to hear from someone who attended his church and knew Pete quite well. Self-Paced Pastoral Training by Pete Briscoe. To respond to your concluding comments, egalitarians do not deny the fatherhood of God. What about people who struggle with a variety of issues that can cause thought processes to change. Jill Briscoe is one of my favorite Bible teachers. They accuse egalitarian churches of following the sinful culture, but given that the culture has until recently restricted females and denied us rights, etc., its really the comp churches who follow the sinful, wordly culture. It must be done sometimes, but I would say only in the most extreme circumstances. I cried and cried reading her book because I couldnt believe it had been so shelved all these years. I think that the reason for this is that Catholicism has managed to come to grips with The Enlightenment and The Rights of Man. Sopy Did the Apostle Paul have a certain mind-set that Christians everywhere are wise to emulate? I remember commenting on Dennys post that the terms used to describe complementary were defined differently among evangelicals and that my own Church did not have the same view of it in sacramental marriage where serving one another was based on love, not on a position of the authority of one over the submission of the other spouse. Also, I havent noticed a lot of women starting cults. If these concerns are valid (and I believe they are), then the issue would definitely be one worth dividing over. I have wondered: do the wives who live under male headship have to leave their consciences behind at the altar when they marry? In the ensuing years, I was involved in watching another church handle a conflict in such a poor manner that I felt I had entered the Twilight Zone. This man was so overwhelmed by the constant contact of the elders and decided that he was wrong. that tells me he is open to diversity in the whole Church as something to be celebrated rather than excluded. 1. True that! Thats what I think. Ha. A religious liberty newsletter that is a must-read for people of faith. As a seminarian who has spent much time studying the Bible, I find it difficult to understand how one can affirm the inerrancy of Scripture while honestly considering the composition of the Bible, the intentions of the author and the intended readership, and the redaction which occurred over several centuries for each text. . . "Trying to keep the failure quiet for a while is really difficult to do; rumors always start," said Pastor Craig Groeschel of LifeChurch.tv on Thursday during "The Nines" webcast. If women, then why not LGBTQ people? Most churches will not grant membership to homosexuals. Been there myself, even after my time at Petes church. But perhaps the handout goes into more details. You cant ignore these. Ok, this is a kind of a sidenote, but Ive seen secret church mentioned before and I just saw somebody link something on facebook. And, if I might add, everyone had a little spring in their step because all was well. Thank you. God calls us to repent of our disobedience and obey His commands concerning sex, among them are the commands that 1) woman may not teach and have authority over men, and that 2) man is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the Church. So glad he encouraged you and you have encouraged the rest of us. Briscoe addressed this briefly in the video. They are truly a godly family. My Comment was Deleted But Briscoe himself said that he has held egalitarian views at least 25 years. "One of the things I learned a number of years ago is that grace is doing the most loving thing," he said. I am not going to give a point-by-point rebuttal. as if its insupportable (as Mr. Darcy might say). I try to understand their thinking, but it doesnt make sense to someone from my own tradition, which BTW is supposed by many to be very authoritarian. Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. That is something to be thankful for. Egalitarianism hurts the sheep. Sopy 2. Although Ed Young was kind to us duringAbby's sickness, his theology and antics drove us nuts. I care not for the name, but the evidence is there and easily googled. My husband and I just watched the entire thing and were greatly encouraged by it. I visited back in November! I too thought it would be authoritarian in the extreme until I got over there and checked it out and was utterly amazed at how mistaken about that I had been. The Elder Board has accepted Pete's decision, and his resignation is effective March 31, 2019. I pray that she does not experience the outright hostility that was exhibited towards Jackie Roese. . You are confusing my comments with what SOPY said it seems. http://juniaproject.com/but-twelve-apostles-all-male/, Pingback: When Men Slide Over | Jackie Always Unplugged. There are, nonetheless, some churches were merely admitting that you experience an ongoing struggle will result in excommunication. Bent Tree Bible Message from Sunday, 17 February 2019 Title: Red Letter Questions, Part 6: Why Do You Call Me Good? @ Victorious: I have been reading with great interest your blog since I was introduced to it through Wondering Eagle and his writing on Community Evangelical Free Church. Im not even sure Pete would label himself or our church as either egalitarian or complementarian. Sorry, I am making a parallel to legalism and Mark 2:27. why in the world does he refer to comps as being so precious, so elite, to be treated with such deference and preference, and the complaining when they are not? . We sat through some crazy teachings, but this was a Beloved Community. Notes: Stuart Briscoe was born in England and worked in student ministry there. The bible says certain things which have been dissected extensively about homosexual behavior (among other things) things which are limited in scope compared to the current issues on this topic and which are heavily influenced (or so the argument goes) by the culture of the day. She was certainly no lace and flowers womens ministry type but quite formidable! As time went on, Joanne would be given the title of pastor and has preached many time from the pulpit of BTBF. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. 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